These past two weeks, I haven't been online much due to being busy with dog responsibilities and life in general. For starters, it's getting harder to carry three dogs to the third floor compared to what I'm used to which is two (Buchi who's 6kg and Chooey who's 3kg).
This is the stairs to the third floor. Twice a day, we would go up there and Rin would wait for all of us to come play with her. |
Note: Please bear with this very long discussion/rant/where-the-hell-did-I-go-wrong experience. Apparently, I have to study one of my posts again entitled 8 Ways to Abate Dog Fighting.
The Stairs
Today, Whitey (weighing approximately 12 kg) decided to follow me while I was climbing up the flimsy wooden stairs towards the 2nd floor. We all know that some dogs can be acrobats in nature but Whitey was scared to death when he stopped on the 6th step. I didn't want to leave him there because it was already a long fall down. So with Buchi in one arm, I held Whitey's collar until we all got up to the 2nd floor.
The Prelude to the Fight
Two days ago, I left Whitey, Rin, Buchi and Chooey playing by themselves while I was cleaning their potty spots. A little while later, I heard growling and snarling from Buchi and he initiated what I call his "Death Sentence". Buchi, whose aggressive issues I haven't fully addressed yet, began to growl at Whitey and bite him!
Whitey would rather stay away from Buchi than confront him. |
Whitey, who did not want any part of this, tried running away but a persistent Buchi came attacking him. Eventually, the gentle giant (Whitey) let out his gladiator side and attacked Buchi- pinning him to the ground with his teeth firmly gripping Buchi's leg.
I hosed them both and Whitey took flight. But Buchi (one of the stupidest bully dog I have ever met) attacked Whitey again (even after he'd been whimpering in pain under Whitey's firm grip). Whitey was no longer playing games. He caught Buchi's neck between his jaws.
Note: It's not that I think Buchi is stupid, but he really outdid himself that day.
Hosing them again didn't work. I had to pull them apart and you'd imagine how hard that could have been with two dogs in a heated fight without having any assistance and in bare hands.
Buchi's Rehabilitation
I have been trying my best to address Buchi's aggression. And so far, a "Tsst" or me calling his name has had some positive outcome. I can stop him from peeing on every single pole he comes across, as well as his humping with those sounds. He also no longer growls at his "old enemies".
I trusted that all would go well with me introducing him and Whitey again. And it was, for more than a week, in fact. But this happened...
The Fight
I truly had no intention of bringing Whitey up the third floor, especially when Buchi was still recuperating from his limp leg. But he followed me up the flimsy wooden stairs which brought me no choice but to bring him up along with Chooey and Buchi. Rin was already in the third floor.
I have noticed Buchi's tension when Whitey's around. I should have checked and double-checked the signs he was showing. I even placed him on top of the table so as to avoid them from clashing since I didn't have anyone else there to help me if they fought again.
You could see that Whitey is all about the submission. |
Feeling sorry for Buchi, I put him back down and watched them like a hawk- following Buchi's every move. It happened so quickly. Buchi lunged at Whitey again in an epic fight of David versus Goliath (where David gets eaten!).
This time, Whitey did not restrain himself at all. He fought back and attacked like a raging bull. I was able to pull them apart (with me raising Whitey's entire body from the ground like a mother carrying her pup and Buchi still struggling to bite the hand that was stopping him from attacking his mortal enemy). But Buchi didn't give up so easily. While I had Whitey off the ground with one hand, Buchi took the opportunity to twist from my grip and bite Whitey again. In response, Whitey shifted his weight and once again PREYED on Buchi.
Without anyone on the third floor with me, I could only stop them from doing further damage but Buchi's skin was still on Whitey's jaws. Fortunately, my brother-in-law (bless his soul) heard the snarls and growls and came up to see me almost kneeling on the ground while trying to think of a way for Whitey to loosen his grip. I asked him to hose them and he did. The moment Whitey let go, I pulled them away from each other and my brother-in-law took Whitey back to the first floor. In the mean time, Buchi was trying to attack my hand for holding him.
And look who comes down with battle scars and teeth scrapes. This is the second time Buchi has ignored my presence in the fit of aggression. |
Things I have learned today:
1. Stopping a dog fight takes a lot of physical energy. This said, I have great admiration for Cesar Millan who's done this with both big and small breeds.
2. Not all dogs respond to hosing. Whitey ran away the first time but he never did so again.
3. Buchi still has a very very long way to go. I will no longer risk having them together unless I am with someone who can assist me if I start correcting this behavior.
I wish I could offer you some good advice but we do not have any. Since my brother and I have become teenagers we have gotten into a couple quick fights but they ended quickly when mom yelled at us. Dog aggression is scary!!
ReplyDeleteYour friends,
Murphy & Stanley
It truly is. You guys are fortunate that your parents started young with you. Whitey and Buchi didn't have that luxury.
DeleteYou poor thing and we too have no advice we can give you. Hopefully someone will. That seemed quite scary. Have a fabulous Friday.
ReplyDeleteBest wishes Molly
Thank you. It is. In my old pack, the one with Coal, Ginger, Peanuts, and Brother Dog, I didn't have these issues so now I have to start again.
DeleteOh gosh, I am so sorry. This sounds very stressful. Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with dogs fighting.
ReplyDeleteThat's alright. I would totally understand. Pip is such an angel.
DeleteOh my goodness. What a terribly stressful situation. Sounds like quite a bit of work still needs to be done and you're definitely on the right track. Take care of your hands!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Whisppy crew. We appreciate you saying that.
DeleteWhat a bummer. I hope it resolves itself soon!
ReplyDeleteNubbin wiggles,
Oskar
We all hope so.
DeleteWOW, thats not good Sidebite and his brother Mickey don't like each other and growl and do the dance of death, which Dad has gotten stopped by grabing tails and hauling them into the house. Then the finger of death was stuck in each face with a stern yelling at. Seems to have worked after about 6 or 7 times.. Trust me Dad can really get mad with them and all is well now!! but this sounds like you need some professional help.
ReplyDeleteYour Furends
Susie & Bites
Unfortunately, I didn't see these guys grow. Buchi is approximately 3 while Whitey is 4. They are, in fact, my sister's homebuddies. So the correction only started recently.
DeleteOh dear Haopee! Sounds like you need an intervention of some kind. I hope you get a resolution and for sure take care of yourself in all this!!
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note re your comment about Austin changing his views mid campaign. I told him to be flexible!!! So it’s my fault lol
Take care xox
If only intervention were available. We don't have a lot of dog behaviorists in our country. In fact, I have only read about one. Trainers only do tricks and guard dog training.
DeleteWe don't have any males in our house. SHE's afraid they'd get into fights when we walk. But Bella and I get into some loud, snappy fights with Roxy, mostly over food. SHE yells and threatens by waving a broom. That stops it.
ReplyDeleteXXXOOO Daisy, Bella & Roxy
My brother-in-law tried to intercept them with a broom recently, it probably wasn't enough as hosing them didn't stop them either. I guess if we started young, it would have been a whote lot easier.
DeleteOh goodness! A fight?! That is really scary.... Sometimes, when I'm on a walk and male dogs bark at me, I bark back because I must show them I is manly, but we've never fought before!
ReplyDeleteCotton
Yes, and what's worst is Buchi will come after Whitey even when Whitey flees! So he isn't just manly but stupid, if you want my honest opinion ( of course, I would never tell this to his face)
DeleteKeeping them separate is the best advice that I can give you, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately :(
DeleteBut Whitey has learned to go up the 2 flights of stairs which used to be the only barrier for him not to get up the third floor alone.
So whenever all of us are in the third floor, Buchi and Whitey need to be leashed for their own safety.
Oh no! That sounds scary!
ReplyDeleteFloyd and I have had a couple of... disagreements (what brothers haven't?) The humans pull us apart (by our tails!) and put us in seperate rooms... That calms the situation.
Maybe you could find a dog trainer to help you with the problem?
Dog trainers in our country usually only teach tricks or guard dog duties and they charge very expensively since there are aren't alot of them here. I've only heard of one dog behaviorist and he's out of our reach.
DeleteSounds as if you're having a really bad time right now. I think keeping Buchi and Whitey apart as much as possible is the best solution for the moment. You must keep yourself safe though - a dog behaviourist might be able to help with Buchi - hope you can work it out - take care - woofs and licks from Magic xx
ReplyDeleteThanks Magic. Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of getting the help of dog behaviorists where I live.
DeleteWe are so sorry about the fight. We hope things will get better.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Teddy Bear & Sierra
We hope so too!
DeleteAwe, sorry to hear this, a few of ours fight but we just tell them to quit and they walk away...hope thing get better!
ReplyDeleteHey Debbie. One of the reasons why getting them to stop through our reactions don't work is because they've remained instinctive. With human interaction limited to a couple of hours a day, they've remained ultimately "dog-natured" like their ancestors were.
DeleteMOWZERS, you're dealing with an entirely different set of situations than would be with cats since most cats are about the same size, give or take. We can only imagine how frustrating and scary that must be! Hoping you can get Buchi to lose some of that aggressiveness soon...and wishing we had some magical words to help, but we don't :-(
ReplyDeleteThank you. I've always asked myself if it were different if we had cats rather than dogs.
DeleteGosh, that's scary. I'm glad you and the dogs were not seriously hurt. Would consulting with a canine behaviorist help?
ReplyDeletePat
Critter Alley
If only they were readily available in our country.
DeleteI is sorry your dogses is doing fightings. Me and Gretchen fighted a lot, but the only time one of us gotted hurt was when I broke my tooth because I tried to bite her. Mama putted Gretchen in The Crate when no peoples was home, but that only kept us apart from each other and no helped with the fightings when we was together. Maybe there is a professional dog consultant you can speak with? Good lucks to you all!
ReplyDeleteLove,
Reuben
There is but he lives far far away.
DeleteWow - sorry you're having so much trouble. I know it's frustrating and frightening. I do have a few thoughts:
ReplyDeleteBut first, even though you've written a fair amount here, I still don't feel I have all the facts and I have a question - did either dog break the other's skin? I'd also like to know if they've been neutered.
I know you've talked about Buchi before so I think your action plan needs to be for him - Whitey sounds like he's just reacting to Buchi's bad attitude. And unless either dog ended up at the vet's after what you describe, I'm thinking that's all it is. Little dogs do seem to feel they have to show the bigger dogs who's boss and I think that is partly what Buchi is doing.
Keeping the two separate is going to be your aim. And I've read your comments that it's not possible but you're going to have to find a way. You can't force the dogs to get along - you have to change Buchi's feelings about Whitey and teach him that he doesn't have to be a bully to be safe. The only way you can do that is to ensure every encounter between the dogs is safe and positive. Is there any chance you can find a baby gate to put in your doorway to keep Whitey out of the third floor?
Also, you didn't ask but I'm going to say I'm not a big fan of Cesar Millan especially when it comes to dealing with fearful dogs. Most animal behavior studies indicate his methods are causing more aggression from dogs because they're scared and what he does scares them further.
In the reactive dog class we attend with Bella, we have learned that you want to change how a dog feels about the presence of another dog - make it always, always, always a positive experience for them and they'll start to associate other dogs with all good things.
So we take the dogs into a room - on leash - and sit them on either side of a baby gate that has a sheet draped over it. We move the sheet aside a bit so they can see each other and stuff them full of treats. Then we put the sheet back up and stop feeding treats. Pretty soon they figure out that the other dogs = treats. In class we're working with two reactive dogs but I think you really only need to change Buchi's attitude since Whitey seems to be just getting fed up with Buchi bullying him.
I hope this gives you some place to start. We've been in this class with Bella for a year now and she's come a long way as a result. I'm sorry for filling your page with this book-long comment - I actually edited it down and had more to say. If you want, we can take the discussion offline. Feel free to email and we can continue it there....
Leslie pretty much wrote my reply. Good luck!
DeleteHey Leslie, I emailed you the details. Thank you for your insight.
DeleteHi Haopee. I've just awarded you two blog awards you can pick them up here http://ian-mydogshebaslifestory.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/two-new-blog-awards.html
ReplyDeleteSheba.
I will look into it soon.
DeleteHi Haopee,
ReplyDeleteI hope your hand is doing okay. I think Leslie made some very good points in her comment. I'm not an expert in dog aggression, but I'll send you a few of my thoughts offline.
I hope you and the dogs are doing okay today.
Take care,
Colby
We are okay. I read your email but I haven't responded to it yet. Thank you in advance.
DeleteFighting between cats is a tough one too! Two of our cats haven't seen each other in 2 years. Thank goodness we have a house that can be sectioned off.
ReplyDeleteIf only dogs were as easy to separate. Whitey is way too smart for his own good.
DeleteOh Haopee,
ReplyDeleteThis does sound very serious. We hope your hand is ok. We hope that someone can find an answer for you. We have to agree with Leslie on the Ceasar Millan thing. We are not big fans of him. We hope you find the help you need.
Now don't be upset with us, but have you considered finding a different environment for one of them.
We have been gone a long time so we dont' know the whole history about the episodes, but it does sound scary
Love
Bert and My Vickie
Regarding the Cesar Millan thing, that's alright. We are all entitled to our opinions and i respect that.
DeleteSeparating this two and giving one another home isn't an option. For one, both dogs aren't technically mine. They are my sister's but I am their current caretaker and overseer.
Don't worry, you didn't miss much. We hope everything is alright with you guys.
Oh, Haopee, we are so sorry this has been so difficult! We are sending our best thoughts and prayers. Take care of yourself, dear friend.
ReplyDeleteThanks. Your thoughts and prayers are much appreciated.
DeleteOh dear! sorry we missed this.Drop me an email if you want any advice...I may not be much help but I have had my fair share of large dogs not agreeing with each other.
ReplyDeleteYour in our thoughts!
Slobbers